Category: Auto

Why Do DSG Boxes Die? SP Study

2023

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Video: Why Do DSG Boxes Die? SP Study

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Video: How DSG Works | Get to Know Your VW 2023, January
Why Do DSG Boxes Die? SP Study
Why Do DSG Boxes Die? SP Study
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The first machines with DSG robots appeared in Russia in the early 2000s. During this period, the units underwent many finishing operations. Let us consider in more detail how the latest modifications of the two main representatives of the DSG family, which are considered not the most reliable, have proved themselves.

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The biggest complaints were the seven-speed DSG robot box (DQ200) with dual dry clutch. The cause of complaints lies in the design features of such robots. This is a simplified and cheaper version of the “wet” type boxes - designed for significantly less torque. Hence the typical disadvantages: rougher, uncomfortable shifting and quick wear of the clutch discs.

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The seven-speed DSG robot has two fundamental modifications. The early one received the 0AM index, and the later one still bears the designation 0CV, despite numerous subsequent innovations. A large-scale modernization in 2011 affected all components of the robot: clutch, mechatronics (control unit) and the mechanical part (elements of a classic mechanical box). Life has shown that all updates have benefited. The DQ200 became more reliable, but motorists still looked at it with concern - the number of breakdowns was very significant.

The second major upgrade of the DSG7 formally took place at the beginning of 2014, although the updated unit appeared in 2013, for example, on the Octavia A7. The manufacturer was so sure of the success of the upgrade that he again changed the terms of the warranty on the box. In 2012, due to massive complaints from the owners, it was extended up to five years or 150, 000 kilometers. And for cars manufactured after January 1, 2014, it was again reduced, equating the terms to the general guarantee for concern cars.

According to representatives of the Volkswagen group, after updating the box, the number of claims due to its failures decreased several times. This is confirmed by employees of dealership service stations. Less rosy, but still very positive, is the statistics of unofficial service centers. The reliability of the DSG7 as a whole and the quality of its work have increased significantly. However, some repair operations are still in demand.

Ресурс мокрого сцепления робота DSG6 полностью зависит от режима эксплу­атации и вмешательства в софт двигателя. Обычно сцепление меняют только после 100 000 км. У любителей чип-тюнинга и агрессивной езды этот пробег сокращается до 30 000-40 000 км. Замена сцепления вне дилерской сети стоит в среднем 55 000 рублей. У официалов - существенно дороже
Ресурс мокрого сцепления робота DSG6 полностью зависит от режима эксплу­атации и вмешательства в софт двигателя. Обычно сцепление меняют только после 100 000 км. У любителей чип-тюнинга и агрессивной езды этот пробег сокращается до 30 000-40 000 км. Замена сцепления вне дилерской сети стоит в среднем 55 000 рублей. У официалов - существенно дороже

The wet grip resource of the DSG6 is completely dependent on the operating mode and interference with the engine software. Typically, the clutch is changed only after 100, 000 km. For lovers of chip tuning and aggressive driving, this mileage is reduced to 30, 000-40, 000 km. Replacing the clutch outside the dealer network costs an average of 55, 000 rubles. For officials - much more expensive. The wet grip resource of the DSG6 is completely dependent on the operating mode and interference with the engine software. Typically, the clutch is changed only after 100, 000 km. For lovers of chip tuning and aggressive driving, this mileage is reduced to 30, 000-40, 000 km. Replacing the clutch outside the dealer network costs an average of 55, 000 rubles. For officials - much more expensive.

Средний ресурс сцепления робота DSG7 последней модификации - 70 000-90 000 км. Он заметно выше, чем у предшественников. При этом всё чаще встречаются переходы за психологическую планку «100 000 км». На чипованном моторе средний ресурс сцепления падает вдвое. Замена узла у неофициалов обходится примерно в 55 000 рублей
Средний ресурс сцепления робота DSG7 последней модификации - 70 000-90 000 км. Он заметно выше, чем у предшественников. При этом всё чаще встречаются переходы за психологическую планку «100 000 км». На чипованном моторе средний ресурс сцепления падает вдвое. Замена узла у неофициалов обходится примерно в 55 000 рублей

The average clutch resource of the latest modification DSG7 robot is 70, 000–90, 000 km. It is noticeably higher than its predecessors. At the same time, transitions beyond the psychological level of “100, 000 km” are increasingly being encountered. On a chip engine, the average clutch life is halved. Unofficial node replacement costs about 55, 000 rubles. The average clutch resource of the latest modification DSG7 robot is 70, 000–90, 000 km. It is noticeably higher than its predecessors. At the same time, transitions beyond the psychological level of “100, 000 km” are increasingly being encountered. On a chip engine, the average clutch life is halved. Unofficial node replacement costs about 55, 000 rubles.

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The main faults of the DQ200 are: clutch wear, gear shift bearings and the death of mechatronics. The clutch assembly is being upgraded for the sixth or seventh time, and this is bearing fruit: its average resource is approaching 100, 000 km. And the mechatronics still behaves unpredictably: it can die at any moment. Dealers are required to replace it in the assembly to a new one (this is the so-called aggregate repair), but advanced informals have long been successfully repairing the unit. Moreover, according to them, as a rule, the cause of breakdowns is a factory defect. This explains the fact that mechatronics from certain parties usually fail. In the nodes, both the hydraulic part and the electronic one suffer. Faulty boards are soldered, and in the hydraulic part, dead valves are replaced and, if possible, their block is restored. There is a full range of necessary parts on the market.

For DSG7, sixth and reverse gear forks wear out most often. The manufacturer even released their repair kit. Specialized unofficial service stations undertake similar work, but dealers who prefer mechanical failures prefer to change the box assembly. This is due both to the manufacturer’s policy, according to which repairs, involving a complete analysis of the robot, are often recognized as economically inexpedient, and to the periodic absence of specific spare parts for ordering through the dealer network. And competent informal people always have access to spare parts, necessary equipment and special tools.

Вилки сцепления в сборе с выжимными подшипниками не доставляют проблем. Чаще всего их составные элементы не изнашиваются. Однако вилки обязательно меняют при установке нового сцепления. Одна из редких неисправностей узла - оплавление пластиковой втулки при перегреве мокрого сцепления; быстрый износ подшипника и повышенный шум при попадании влаги
Вилки сцепления в сборе с выжимными подшипниками не доставляют проблем. Чаще всего их составные элементы не изнашиваются. Однако вилки обязательно меняют при установке нового сцепления. Одна из редких неисправностей узла - оплавление пластиковой втулки при перегреве мокрого сцепления; быстрый износ подшипника и повышенный шум при попадании влаги

Clutch forks with release bearings do not cause problems. Most often, their constituent elements do not wear out. However, the forks must be changed when installing a new clutch. One of the rare malfunctions of the assembly is the melting of the plastic sleeve when the wet clutch overheats; quick wear of the bearing and increased noise due to moisture. Clutch forks with release bearings do not cause problems. Most often, their constituent elements do not wear out. However, the forks must be changed when installing a new clutch. One of the rare malfunctions of the assembly is the melting of the plastic sleeve when the wet clutch overheats; quick wear of the bearing and increased noise due to moisture.

Замену неисправного мехатроника неофициалы оценивают примерно в 55 000 рублей. Если возможно, узел успешно отремонтируют - это обойдется существенно дешевле (профильные сервисы давно освоили такое восстановление)
Замену неисправного мехатроника неофициалы оценивают примерно в 55 000 рублей. Если возможно, узел успешно отремонтируют - это обойдется существенно дешевле (профильные сервисы давно освоили такое восстановление)

The replacement of the faulty mechatronics is estimated by informals at about 55, 000 rubles. If possible, the node will be repaired successfully - it will cost significantly less (specialized services have long mastered such a restoration). The replacement of the faulty mechatronics is estimated by informals at about 55, 000 rubles. If possible, the node will be repaired successfully - it will cost significantly less (specialized services have long mastered such a restoration).

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The manufacturer does not regulate the replacement of oil in the mechanical part of the DQ200, it is designed for the entire life of the box. However, it is advisable to replace the oil with approximately 50, 000 kilometers - this will extend the bearing life on the shift forks.

The reliability of the DSG7 has also been enhanced by new software versions. Fresh firmware has a different gearshift and clutch control algorithm. In particular, the new program will not give a sharp shot from a traffic light. No matter how hard the driver pushes the gas pedal at start from a standstill, the car will fly only after the clutch is completely closed, which occurs smoothly and with a certain delay.

And further. The DQ200 is designed for a maximum torque of 250 Nm. Any attempts to make chip tuning of the motor will lead to a significant reduction in the resource of the robot. Have to change the clutch twice as often, or even fork out for a complete repair of the unit. For unofficials, it is estimated at about 100, 000 rubles.

TAKE THE SYSTEM

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Many car enthusiasts still believe that shifting the selector from the “drive” to “neutral” position while waiting at a traffic light or languishing in a traffic jam prolongs the life of DSG boxes. In fact, such actions do more harm.

When the car is on the “drive”, the clutch discs are completely open - and it does not slip in any way. And the transfer of the selector to “neutral” and then again to “drive” accelerates the wear of some elements. The explanation for this lies in the algorithm of the DSG boxes.

For ease of understanding, we omit the clutch response moment. On the “neutral” the robot has two gears engaged: first and reverse. When the selector is in the “drive” position and at the beginning of the movement, the rear stage gives way to second gear. When the car stops, this alignment is preserved, if you do not do unnecessary gestures. If you translate the selector to "neutral", then the second gear is turned off and the rear one is pushed again instead. This process speeds up the wear of timing gear and fork bearings.

There is an opinion that the traffic jam in traffic jams can be leveled, fixing the transmission in manual or sports mode, so that the robot does not once again switch to a step higher and back. Allegedly, this move can reduce the wear of the elements of the unit. According to Volkswagen technical experts, this makes some sense for the DSG7 of older modifications (until 2014). Later, new software was launched with an improved gearshift and clutch control algorithm, which significantly improved ride comfort. Unofficial position: such manipulations practically do not affect the wear of the box, and riding on a fixed first stage only adds twitching, since it is very short on all DSG robots.

But the accented, confident depressing the brake pedal and holding it can be safely recommended to those who wish to stop in traffic. Often, due to weak pedal effort, the gearbox gets confused in the situation: it doesn’t completely open the clutch and selects the wrong gear, as a result - jerking and twitching. Moreover, this is more pronounced on cars with DSG7.

Wet business

The six-speed wet clutch DSG (DQ250) appeared much earlier than the dry box. The main modernization of the DQ250 took place in 2009, and after that it causes a minimum of problems - this is the opinion of the dealerships and the Moscow representative office of Volkswagen. Informal people disagree with this and assure that in the first years after the modernization, there were problems with mechatronics - similar to those that arose with DSG7, but later the situation improved.

In 2013, the manufacturer partially changed the case of the box so that it does not interfere with the suspension of the suspension arm bolt, and also updated the internal and external filters. In addition, new versions of software and wet clutch modifications are periodically released - the unit has been upgraded for the fourth time.

Быстрый износ подшипников дифференциала 6-ступенчатого робота DSG - характерное последствие чип-тюнинга и неадекватной эксплу­атации
Быстрый износ подшипников дифференциала 6-ступенчатого робота DSG - характерное последствие чип-тюнинга и неадекватной эксплу­атации

The rapid wear of the differential bearings of the 6-speed DSG robot is a characteristic consequence of chip tuning and inadequate operation. The rapid wear of the differential bearings of the 6-speed DSG robot is a characteristic consequence of chip tuning and inadequate operation.

Перегрев оси сателлитов и чудовищные разрушения ее посадочного места в корпусе дифференциала коробки DSG6 - результат увлечения чип-тюнингом и ездой с частой и длительной пробуксовкой колес
Перегрев оси сателлитов и чудовищные разрушения ее посадочного места в корпусе дифференциала коробки DSG6 - результат увлечения чип-тюнингом и ездой с частой и длительной пробуксовкой колес

Overheating of the axis of the satellites and the monstrous destruction of its seat in the differential housing of the DSG6 gearbox is the result of enthusiasm for chip tuning and driving with frequent and prolonged wheel slip. Overheating of the axis of the satellites and the monstrous destruction of its seat in the differential housing of the DSG6 gearbox is the result of enthusiasm for chip tuning and driving with frequent and prolonged wheel slip.

Столь серьезное разрушение шестерён передач у DSG6 свидетельствует исключительно о неадекватной эксплуатации. К такому плачевному результату приводит пресловутый чип-тюнинг и частые старты «в пол» со светофоров
Столь серьезное разрушение шестерён передач у DSG6 свидетельствует исключительно о неадекватной эксплуатации. К такому плачевному результату приводит пресловутый чип-тюнинг и частые старты «в пол» со светофоров

Such a serious destruction of the gears of the DSG6 indicates exclusively inadequate operation. The notorious chip tuning and frequent starts “to the floor” from traffic lights lead to such a deplorable result. Such a serious destruction of the gears of the DSG6 indicates exclusively inadequate operation. The notorious chip tuning and frequent starts “to the floor” from traffic lights lead to such a deplorable result.

Wet clutch robots have many advantages over dry boxes. However, the DSG6 has serious flaws. For example, an oil circuit combines clutch, mechatronics and the mechanical part of a box - and often repairing a DQ250 involves replacing a bunch of elements. It happens that the clutch wear products fall into the mechatronic and it starts to fool, quickly finishing the clutch and the elements of the mechanical part of the box. Sometimes participants in a conspiracy swap places in random order. Hence the requirement of the plant to change the oil in the box every 60, 000 km. But it is better to play it safe and reduce this interval to 40, 000 km.

The second drawback of the DQ250 is known for classic machines. Cars with DSG6 are contraindicated for prolonged wheel slip - overheating of the oil leads to disastrous consequences.

При адекватной эксплуатации подгоревшие или изношенные кóльца синхронизаторов довольно редкая для современных DSG неисправность. Обычно срок службы колец не ниже ресурса коробки. Сейчас гораздо чаще износ колец отмечается у обычных механических коробок
При адекватной эксплуатации подгоревшие или изношенные кóльца синхронизаторов довольно редкая для современных DSG неисправность. Обычно срок службы колец не ниже ресурса коробки. Сейчас гораздо чаще износ колец отмечается у обычных механических коробок

With proper use, burnt or worn synchronizer rings are a rare occurrence for modern DSGs. Typically, the life of the rings is not lower than the resource box. Now much more often wear rings are noted in conventional mechanical boxes. With proper use, burnt or worn synchronizer rings are a rare occurrence for modern DSGs. Typically, the life of the rings is not lower than the resource box. Now much more often wear rings are noted in conventional mechanical boxes.

Замена подшипников вилок шестой и задней передач в DSG7 - довольно распространенная процедура. Недаром производитель выпускает соответствующий ремкомплект. Замена подшипников в неофициальном сервисе обойдется в 40 000-45 000 рублей - при условии, что остальные «расходники» коробки не потребуют обновления
Замена подшипников вилок шестой и задней передач в DSG7 - довольно распространенная процедура. Недаром производитель выпускает соответствующий ремкомплект. Замена подшипников в неофициальном сервисе обойдется в 40 000-45 000 рублей - при условии, что остальные «расходники» коробки не потребуют обновления

Replacing sixth and reverse gear forks in the DSG7 is a fairly common procedure. No wonder the manufacturer produces the appropriate repair kit. Replacing bearings in an unofficial service will cost 40, 000–45, 000 rubles, provided that the rest of the consumables of the box do not require updating. Replacing sixth and reverse gear forks in the DSG7 is a fairly common procedure. No wonder the manufacturer produces the appropriate repair kit. Replacing bearings in an unofficial service will cost 40, 000–45, 000 rubles, provided that the rest of the consumables of the box do not require updating.

Most often, problems with the DSG6 are caused by inadequate operation - chip tuning of the engine and aggressive driving. As a result, the adhesion resource is reduced several times. But it’s much worse that in such conditions the mechanical part suffers from the box. For example, the teeth of the gears of the gears and the main pair grind together and wear products quickly kill the unit.

At the same time, the DQ250 feels great in ring racing without interfering with the software. It is only necessary to change the oil in the middle of the season. But the hobby for “flying” in a city with a torn driving mode often results in serious costs: a full-fledged DSG6 repair for unofficials costs about 120, 000 rubles.

WITH STOCK

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For a long time, experts of unofficial service stations noticed that the factory volume (1.7 l) of gear oil in the mechanical part of the DSG7 is not enough for the full lubrication of some components. Gear oil, upper shaft bearings and reverse forks suffer from oil starvation, which is clearly visible when troubleshooting a tired robot.

When repairing boxes and replacing the mentioned elements, servicemen fill in approximately 2.1 liters of oil. Practice has shown that with such a volume of fluid, these parts last much longer. Moreover, the increased oil level does not give side effects and does not cause leakage of oil seals.

With the last update of the DSG7 in 2014, the manufacturer brought the ventilation of the case to the top of the case - a breather appeared there. In addition, informants noticed that the factory oil level was higher and its volume was approximately 2.0 liters. Q.E.D.

Head on shoulders

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In recent years, the manufacturer has significantly improved the design of DSG robots with two clutches. At least the DQ250 box got rid of the status of unreliable, and the DQ200 is also pulling towards it. Concern VW carries out comprehensive work on errors, constantly analyzing statistics on the operation of machines in Russian conditions. This is confirmed by the excellent reliability indicators of the seven-speed wet clutch DSG (DQ500 index), which has been installed on some concern machines designed for our market since 2014.

Conclusion? Frank problems with German robots are due mainly to inadequate operation. Servicemen of all stripes are advised to think with their heads, not to get involved in aggressive driving and not to interfere with DSG boxes. That is true, but the Germans worked on the mistakes at the expense of the buyers of their cars.

MILITARY SUMMARY

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The manufacturer often releases the latest software versions for DSG robots. Volkswagen and Skoda even flashed a service campaign to reflash models with a seven-speed DSG gearbox. Possible incorrect operation of the control electronics could lead to an excessive increase in the oil pressure in the hydraulic system, and consequently, damage to the pressure accumulator built into the mechatronics and leakage of liquid.

The free software update campaign for Volkswagen Caddy, Golf and Jetta cars started at the end of 2016 and affected 4, 500 cars produced between 2013 and 2016. The Czechs started a larger revision: the recall campaign began in March 2017 and affected 45, 000 cars Skoda Octavia, Superb, Fabia, Yeti and Rapid 2012-2016 release.

It is noteworthy that part of the cars with boxes of the last major modernization of 2014 fell under the review. According to representatives of the Volkswagen concern, the firmware has already been updated on the vast majority of cars and they are not aware of cases of destruction of mechatronics. Other additions have been added to the new software to improve the performance of DSG7.

But unofficial service stations saw the destroyed mechatronics. Most distinguished cars produced in 2012. And before that, such cases were extremely rare - as after the 2014 DSG7 update. According to mechatronics repairmen, the reason is not the increased oil pressure in the hydraulic system, but the unstable quality of the metal from which it is made. In their memory there were already three different versions, and they know examples when the destruction occurred on boxes with new firmware.

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